Experiencing Germany

Harald Kunde

You have been director of the Ludwig Forum for International Art in Aachen since 2002. Prior to that, you headed Dresden's Kunsthaus. Both institutions are dedicated to contemporary art. What prompted you to make the move?

From September 1995 to March 2002, I headed a gallery which started life as Galerie Rähnitzgasse and later became Kunsthaus Dresden - Dresden Municipal Gallery of Contemporary Art. These were intensive start-up years in which we were able to create a focal point for contemporary art in Baroque-dominated Dresden which gained recognition in the wider region. After this grassroots work, the Ludwig Forum in Aachen offered exactly the right type of challenge for me to progress to: it's a large and well-established institution with its own collections and a very rich and diverse programme of events. What it needed, however, was some fresh impetus for its exhibitions.

Aachen is close to the border with Belgium and the Netherlands, and Dresden is not far from the Czech Republic. Does working in border regions particularly appeal to you?

Border regions always have one key advantage: they are compact arenas where a wealth of cultural and intellectual influences collide and interact, creating a lively and dynamic atmosphere. But when it comes to genuine exchange, the Euregio Aachen, as it's called, undoubtedly has a strong advantage: here, the social distinctions are not as pronounced as they are in the Saxon-Bohemian-Silesian region, so scenarios such as the kerb-crawling along the E55 are unthinkable here. People here would rather drive over to Maastricht for some retail therapy or sample frog's legs in Hohes Venn.

Slide show: Aachen

You were a student of art history in 1984 when Peter Ludwig, the art collector from Aachen, gave a lecture on Picasso at the University of Leipzig. What impression did the founder of your current workplace make on you at the time?

Well of course, we were all thrilled at the prospect of seeing the mega-collector and chocolate magnate. We had heard about his reputation: that he collected art in bulk in the hope that some of the items he netted in each "catch" would prove to be important – and as we know, his success rate is impressive. The title of his lecture was "A woman in the life of Picasso" and his enthusiasm and intense love of art were tangible, almost in a physical sense, throughout his lecture. He made a profound impression on me, and he made me question many of the prejudices about supposed commercial hype which were current at that time. He was a bundle of energy, drawing everyone and everything into his orbit and vigorously pursuing his ambition, which was to bring contemporary art to the public worldwide.

As a rule, lovers of modern art tend to be in the minority. How do the citizens of Aachen compare with Dresden's art lovers in this respect?

Supermarket    Lady

In Aachen, there are some extremely well-informed groups of connoisseurs who visit all the major exhibitions, biennials, trade fairs etc. and have done so for many years, or have recently started to take an interest, depending on their age. As a result, there is a core of serious-minded experts, many of whom have built up their own collections. This barely exists in Dresden. Dresden's art lovers are generally younger, less well-to-do and in some ways more naïve, which makes them more receptive to new artistic experiences. I should say that this distinction only applies to people who are interested in modern art, with all its challenges; the large majority of people, in Aachen and Dresden alike, tend to be bogged down in the banalities of life, remote from any artistic experience.

The Ludwig Forum offers a wide range of educational services – including children's birthday parties, family programmes and corporate celebrations. What does this mean in practical terms, and how do the people of Aachen react to these opportunities?

The Forum's educational activities have been a priority since it opened in 1991 and have proved very popular. The key focus, in every case, is on linking perception and production: in other words, we encourage participants to draw artistic inspiration from the temporary exhibitions and the permanent collection and use it in their own work in the workshops. The courses are structured according to the participants' age, type of school etc. They are led by local artists and are aimed at adults as well as children. We also offer children's birthday parties and cookery courses in conjunction with the Forum's restaurant. In addition, we regularly hire out our facilities to companies and institutions, such as the RWTH Aachen University of Technology or the Fraunhofer Institute, for receptions, congresses etc.

Gingerbread, chocolate, jam, football, equestrian events, the Cathedral, the Charlemagne Prize – we associate a great many different things with Aachen, but not necessarily art and culture. What can be done to change this situation?

Köbergasse

Obviously, the key words you have mentioned tie in both with the Aachen mentality and the clichés about Aachen as a "cosy little town in the three-country triangle between the Rhine and the Meuse" that are prevalent in the wider region. In other words, a town which is generally not associated with modern art – as if modern art needs urban centres, flourishing companies, museums with acquisitions budgets, market-relevant galleries, lofts, an airport, a subway system and a river …. Aachen has none of these, so it is astonishing that in art circles at least, Aachen has quite a reputation – initiated by the incredible collection activities of Peter and Irene Ludwig and now extending to the collections of contemporary art and the work of institutions such as the Ludwig Forum or the Neuer Aachener Kunstverein. To achieve a real improvement, however, the City of Aachen needs to make a stronger commitment to these organisations and bring about a change in perceptions, especially at local level, by providing adequate funding.

You know Dresden very well, and you've been working in Aachen for more than four years. What does Aachen have to offer that Dresden does not?

Aachen has hot springs which date back to its foundation in Roman antiquity and which were later firm favourites with Charlemagne and of course with visitors to the baths today. It has a cathedral which was the coronation church of German kings for many centuries and even now attracts streams of pilgrims to view the holy relics collected by Charlemagne, which are on display every seven years. And Aachen has the Ludwig Forum, without which I would never have come to this most westerly edge of Germany. Instead, I would have stayed by the banks of the Elbe, ideally looking out from a villa in Oberloschwitz at the newly reconstructed Frauenkirche and the Palace with its Green Vault collection of treasures, wondering: "But why isn't there a museum of modern art here?"

If someone asked you: "Where do I find the real Aachen?", what would your answer be?

I would suggest they climb the Lousberg, Aachen's highest outlook point, and enjoy the beautiful view of the city below, but they could also look out for the obelisk that was erected in the Napoleonic era, which would give them an sense of the regional, national and international dimension. They could find out how far it is to Burtscheid or Hamburg, for example, and check the distance to Lisbon or Bucharest at the same time. For me, this is always a good example of the relationship between the local and the wider world. And if you choose your descent route correctly, you can visit St Salvator's Chapel, where there is marvellous evidence of the tolerance of Rhenish Catholicism: an inscription which reads "Come, no matter who you are".

Harald Kunde is a museum director and curator. Born in Halle/Saale in 1962, he studied art education, art history and German literature at the University of Leipzig. In 1992, he curated his first exhibition in the Grassi Museum and at seven locations in the centre of Leipzig. This project was entitled Spaces for Experience: un parcours français. From 1995, he headed the Kunsthaus Dresden, before being appointed as director of the Ludwig Forum for International Art in Aachen in 2002. Harald Kunde has a particular interest in the paintings of Neo Rauch, the star of the New Leipzig School, and has written catalogue texts and delivered opening speeches at Rauch's exhibitions for many years.

Aachen: Facts and Figures
259,010	Inhabitants (as at 2004)
35,000	Students, including 6,600 foreign nationals, at five major colleges and universities
500,000	International visitors to the World Equestrian Festival in 2006
4,500	Tonnes of dough are processed by Aachen's gingerbread makers each year
550	New, forward-looking companies providing over 10,000 jobs have grown up since 1985
47	Laureates of the International Charlemagne Prize of Aachen, including Konrad Adenauer, Winston Churchill, François Mitterrand, Helmut Kohl and Bill Clinton
32	German kings celebrated their coronations in Aachen's gothic City Hall