Ühiskond

Professor Alemann, the majority of Germans think that both business and politicians are becoming more and more corrupt. Are they right?

I am afraid it is a very controversial subject. Science has not been able to develop any objective process for assessing it, because when it comes to corruption there is such a huge number of cases that go undetected or unreported. The reason for it being so huge is the fact that it does not involve a perpetrator-victim scenario. In the case of bribery there are two perpetrators working closely together and the victim – a company or a public authority – is very often hard to define. This leads to fewer cases being reported compared with other crimes. This is what makes corruption so difficult to assess.

One has to differentiate between what is known as perceived corruption and real corruption. Perceived corruption is the type the media reports about. As the media has started to pay more attention to corruption over the last few years, people have been given the impression that corruption is on the increase. This is of course only a perceived view.

77 per cent of Germans are of the opinion that the government does not do enough to combat corruption. Are they right?

Yes and no. I believe that many people are often not capable of judging what exactly is being done in the fight against corruption. So much has been done in Germany over the last ten years. Germany has become a member of so many more international conventions against corruption – like the one set up by the OECD.

The penal code has also been tightened in many areas. For example, in the 1990s the often criticised possibility of offsetting bribes for companies involved in international orders against tax was abolished.

What do you think about Germany still not ratifying the UN Convention on Corruption?

Not enough is being done in Germany about the bribing of members of parliament. The UN Convention prescribes a more stringent approach and that is why Germany has still not ratified the convention. We really are lagging behind on this. Something has to be done urgently.

Do you think that stricter laws help to contain corruption?

Stricter laws are important, but they are not the be-all and end-all. At our institute in Düsseldorf we have carried out some investigations into corruption in EU countries. Some countries whose legislation on corruption is not particularly advanced come off particularly well in the surveys – for example, the Scandinavian countries like Finland and Sweden. The more southerly Mediterranean countries on the other hand have a much more elaborate set of laws and in spite of that they do not do well at all.

Legislation of course is no good on its own. There has to be a political culture of propriety, transparency and openness. That however takes decades to develop and cannot be conjured up by introducing laws.

The OECD has accused German prosecutors of lack of spirit in the fight to stop German companies bribing when doing business abroad. Is this criticism justified?

That is not something I am in a position to judge. The one thing I can say however is that in Germany since the 1990s there has been a very different mood prevailing when it comes to corruption. The criminal investigation departments of the individual German states and the Federal Criminal Police Office have since started to regularly publish reviews of the corruption situation.

Corruption is now being taken very seriously and the prosecution authorities are now much more active than they used to be – even at local community level.

A recent investigation showed that German companies are heavily into bribery in international business – many managers view corruption almost as a necessary element of business conduct. Do you see any chance here of this changing?

Yes. The big Siemens scandal made it quite clear that there are certain opportunities now to be had. Siemens seems to have been quite heavily involved in international corruption. The present leadership of the group however is apparently intent on putting a stop to it. They have adopted a completely new course and are really trying to do something to stop corruption. It really is a clear signal when such a large, internationally networked company, so steeped in tradition, suddenly becomes so active. A positive sign at last!

In your opinion just how effective could a central corruption index be – as Transparency International is demanding?

It would be of vital importance if such an index were ever to come about. Companies that have been involved in corruption cases would be put on a kind of black list and for a certain period of time would be excluded from applying for public contracts.

One of your theories says, “The more protestant a country, the less susceptible it is to corruption.” Does that also apply to Germany’s individual federal states?

No. That is a somewhat exaggerated theory that has been exploited by the newspapers. I made it quite clear in one of the surveys that the susceptibility to corruption goes hand in hand with the political culture I mentioned earlier. The Scandinavian countries in which there is very little corruption are as a rule protestant. It seems that ethical values like transparency and clarity have developed there over the centuries. Nevertheless there is no definite causality – the fact that a region or a city is predominately protestant does not necessarily mean that there is less corruption there.