5 Questions

Artist duo Susanne Kudielka and Kaspar Wimberley came to Johannesburg to research and explore the notion of „security“. They engaged with the city and its people through a series of interventions, most notably a „drive“ in a cardboard car.

_{© Treacle}

Kaspar Wimberley, your theme for the residency in Johannesburg was “security”. Was this your first stay in Johannesburg, what had you heard about security in this city prior to your arrival and how did your expectations or fears compare to the actual experience?

This was our first experience of Johannesburg. Most of what we had read or been told before our arrival described Johannesburg as a place with a reputation for being a ‘dangerous city’. Our own personal expectations were influenced by a period of time working in Cape Town in 2009, in which the ever-present issue of security, and how this seemed to feed off, and generate, a society of fear and mistrust, where everybody who felt they had something to lose was busy building higher walls, adding electric fences, buying dogs and fitting alarm systems. These observations led to our subsequent interest in security and provided the backdrop for our residency in Johannesburg.

Our actual experience of Johannesburg changed as time progressed. During our stay we traveled to a range of different areas and urban contexts – the city center (CBD), Hillbrow and Yeoville, the northern and eastern suburbs, the periphery of the city and (briefly) Soweto. The more you explore and engage, the more familiar, complex and connected a place becomes. This familiarity breeds a feeling of relative safety, or at least comfort and confidence (unless something unfortunate happens).

It might seem obvious, but the more we discarded our layers of protection and fear, the more sociable and interactive our experience of Johannesburg became.

The city center was much more accessible and lively than we had expected. Despite occasional moments in which we felt uncomfortable, the hostile looks we would sometimes receive and the awareness that things can happen, we felt, to varying degrees, able to walk through the city center. I guess as visitors we were being both extra cautious and extra naive.

Pedestrian pavements in Johannesburg’s residential suburbs are gradually disappearing. Many house owners use the lawn outside of the perimeter walls as an extended garden. Where does private space end and public space start?

The case of Johannesburg’s pavements is particularly interesting when we compare the city center and the suburbs. In both the city center and the suburbs the pavements have been taken over by the/a public – in one instance the pavement has been taken over by informal traders and in the other by local residents. In the city center this process transforms the pavement into a place for social interaction; in the suburbs it removes the possibility of this taking place.

The changing sidewalk could also be seen as a new infrastructure, an invitation to use the space in a different way. We noticed how some gardeners would use the lawn to enjoy a break from work or wait for the bus at the end of the day. There is nothing but your sensibilities stopping you picking the lavender that has been planted in place of the path, or having a picnic on what is essentially public space. In practice it might be different. When we organised a picnic on the lawn, one participant quite rightly suggested that it would be a more interesting experiment if we had all been black.

The main intervention you did in Johannesburg was a “drive” in a cardboard car from Kensington to Parkwood. Both scenery and vibe on your “drive” changed along the way through the different neighbourhoods. What are your most striking observations?

Observing how people in different areas react to and interact with a cardboard car walking along the street was a new experience. Everybody seemed to enjoy the sight, but in the suburbs people were more distanced, taking photos, honking the car horn or waving as they drove past. In other areas we had expected reaction and interaction, but had never imagined a group of children jumping in the car, to walk with us for over two hours. The project and our presence turned into something very different than we had originally intended. Having the company of six children also allowed us to share our observations and thoughts as we walked. We probably learnt more about one another than we did about the landscape. We couldn’t imagine a group of children in Germany walking so far from home without their parents. One of the children told us that they are used to walking long distances. For those who had never been to the northern suburbs, the journey became an unusual form of sightseeing.

Audience interaction is an integral part of all of your work. How accessible is your art to an audience outside of the arts and culture sphere?

I’m not sure if we can answer this ourselves! We rarely think about targeting a specific audience, or distinguishing between an arts audience and a non-arts audience. We aim to create work that is relevant and accessible to all those we encounter in the situations that we create. Given that most of our work takes place outside gallery spaces, often without a large amount of publicity, we meet whoever would have been there anyway. Dependant on the location of our work, we usually end up having more people interacting with an event who would not be considered as coming from the ‘arts and cultural sphere’. To some spectators or participants, our art is not perceived as art – which is ok. We try to create work that functions as an invitation to take part in something, rather than a forced interaction.

What is the motivation behind your body of work, not only in Johannesburg but generally? What message do you wish to convey through your work?

We are interested in investigating, revealing and subverting the hierarchy of the moment or situation. We do not have a message that we want to communicate. We want to create work that encourages an analytical approach to experience; that we consider and reflect on our immediate environment, our cultural habits and every moment that we find ourselves in. We want to create work that acts as a catalyst for continued dialogue and debate around contemporary socio-political narratives. And we want to keep learning, to conduct public experiments in which the parameters are defined but the results or repercussions are not known at the point of departure, sharing this process with those who would like to join us.