The Latest at Goethe

Who goes to museums? What significance does this institution have today? What is its future? A Goethe-Institut lecture series is now examining these essential questions. One of the participants is Bernhart Schwenk. We asked the curator of contemporary art whether his job isn’t a contradiction in terms.

Mr. Schwenk, when was your last visit to a museum for personal reasons?

Just a few days ago, in Frankfurt.

Which museum?

That was the Museum for Modern Art, one of my favourite museums. I visit most of them regularly, sometimes only briefly, when I’m passing through. Museum Ludwig is another one of them.

What do you appreciate most about museums?

Museums are a free space, a space to think in. I appreciate the museums as public places where commerce and consumption do not play a role.

Google just launched its Art Project. We can now virtually walk through an assortment of museums around the world. Will we need museums at all in the future?

Virtually visiting museums is a fantastic opportunity to deal with art in a wide variety of contexts. Of course, virtually wandering about cannot replace a real visit to a museum. Certain experiences can only be had in real places with real objects.

Has the significance of museums in the age of the internet – the knowledge society – not changed at all?

No. The internet is a valuable means of communication, a useful tool. However, in museums we deal with content and with direct, physical experiences.

What is the primary importance of the museum today – perhaps also compared with private collections?

Public museums are free to make their own decisions, the way art is or the press in our state. We all ought to ensure than these freedoms are maintained.

You are the chief curator of contemporary art at the Pinakothek der Moderne. Isn’t it a contradiction in terms: museum and contemporary?

It would be a contradiction if we defined a museum as an archive without any contact with the public. But, museums have long not been like that. Even a museum for old masters has to deal with the present.

Where do you see the differences in the work of a curator for contemporary art at a state-funded museum as compared to work at a privately-owned museum?

The major difference in the work is that between private and public collections. A private collection reflects the personality of its collector. A collector can make spontaneous purchasing decisions and can also decide about the future of their collection. By contrast, public collections have the mission of being interesting even for future generations. The sale of works contradicts the museum ethos and would adulterate history.

Aren’t young artists afraid to be exhibited by you, thinking: Goodness gracious! I’m so old they put me in the museum!

You’ll have to ask the artists that! But, I think that most of them consider the purchase of their works as an opportunity to be shown and be seen. It also challenges the artists to think about their own work. What might still be significant in a few decades?

You’re saying that the main mission of a museum is not “to preserve the arts”?

Yes, it is, but in a vital way. Public awareness always needs to be reactivated. That’s probably the hardest job for a curator: to always stimulate the visitors anew!

You now have an exhibition at the Pinakothek on Documentary Film in the 21st Century. Isn’t that more for a film festival?

Our exhibition neither intends to replace the cinema nor start up a new festival. We are consciously using the exhibition means, means like those used by visual artists, for example in video installations. At the Pinakothek der Moderne we consider it our mission to expand the idea of what art is. Also to produce unusual links between neighbouring artistic genres, for instance to dance, to music, to fashion, to design or to architecture – and to film as well. There may not be any boundaries.

What role does the educational approach play in this?

Educational … that sounds like learning targets. There aren’t any. But, we want to offer our visitors as many opportunities as possible to experience something.

Who do you reach with your work? Isn’t it merely a very small, educated elite?

By and large, that may be the case. But we always attempt to address new target groups. Today, we attract not only art lovers, but also cineastes or lovers of New Music. A populist programme, one with mass appeal like television thinks it has to offer to get ratings, is no worthwhile solution for us.

There is no lack of museums in Munich and the numbers keep growing. Just two years ago the Brandhorst Museum was added to the list. Is this at all justifiable? We’re talking here about substantial costs...

Where do you think the money is better used than for the arts? When asking this question you mustn’t forget that the budget of a city or state for museums is usually the smallest budget.

The Pinakothek der Moderne opened in 2002. You’ve been part of it from the beginning. What has changed over these nine years?

We have gotten to know the house very well and the visitors have, too. Together, we have compiled a history, an unmistakable profile. The interdisciplinary approach has grown considerably.

Will there still be museums in 50 years? How will they be different than today’s?

Museums, I’ll bet you, will still exist in 50 years – maybe even more than there are today. But, many of them will look different than today. They will communicate differently and be perceived differently. And the art of the 21st century will look different. There will be more ephemeral art forms. Perhaps the boundaries between art and non-art will also dissolve. But, museums will always remain places for uncontrolled, free dialogue.

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