What the World Has to Tell Us

The 70-year anniversary of the Goethe-Institut: A conversation with the president of the Goethe-Institut Carola Lentz and the secretary-general Johannes Ebert about the big issues of the future and what contribution the largest German intermediary organisation can make to debates in Germany.
 

The big issues presently occupying policymakers, but actually the whole world, are ecology and sustainability, digitalisation, migration and the consequences of the pandemic.

Johannes Ebert: These are indeed the issues that also occupy the Goethe-Institut globally. However, I would also add the issue of work in illiberal contexts to the topics you mentioned.

What role can foreign cultural policy as practised by the Goethe-Institut play? What role should it play?

Carola Lentz: One of the lessons derived from the Goethe-Institut’s 70-year history is that our worldwide networks give us lots of stimuli from the local and regional cultural scenes, which we can incorporate into discussions in Germany. These stimuli broaden our horizon in debates that are often very narrowly focused on Europe and Germany. Our work means being in constant conversation with the world. We’re convinced that language, culture and education release potential for change.

Could you give me an example?

Johannes Ebert: We organise sustainability conferences for pupils all over the world. Mexican, American and Chinese teens take part, sometimes with very small projects from their home countries. But a spirit is created there that demonstrates: this is our common problem; these are our common challenges. Creating this spirit is one of our most delightful and important tasks.

In an institution as international as the Goethe-Institut, digitalisation and ecology are closely linked and have, of course, also been fuelled by the pandemic.

Johannes Ebert: The Goethe-Institut began the process of digitalisation very early on. We went online in 1995, adopted the last big “digital strategy” in 2013, then a digital audit in 2018, which helped us develop quite a bit further. And, fortunately, we were able to work from our homes from one day to the next when the coronavirus crisis began. We were then able to immediately scale up many online language-learning offers that we had previously developed and use them worldwide. We also created entirely new formats for our global cultural work.

Was digitalisation a kind of innovation boost for your projects?

Johannes Ebert: Absolutely. But I’d like to emphasise that although digitalisation makes many things possible that were hardly conceivable before, the physical Goethe-Institut spaces are more important than ever as places for encounters, as places of learning – above all because of the growing pressure on civil society and culture in many countries, but especially because the pandemic has taught us that there’s no substitute for genuine human encounters.

Does foreign cultural work need to be rethought in a globalised environment?

Johannes Ebert: The times are over when “the West,” the European and Anglo-Saxon world, steered the course. We live In a multipolar world, also influenced by, say, China, Russia and Turkey, countries that may adhere to different values than we do. That’s why, in our view, future foreign cultural and educational policy must adopt an even stronger listening mode in order to then recognise what offers from Germany, from Europe, we can use to contribute to a positive development of civil society. Only if we listen and really respond to the needs of the cultural and educational scenes abroad, if we develop something together, will we create trust. For us, it is about standing up for peaceful coexistence in a diverse world. The prerequisite for this is understanding. And this can only be achieved through an open exchange of views. In order to maintain such a sustainable network for the future, we naturally need reliable funding.

Carola Lentz: Part of the trust we’ve built is because we’ve been present at many locations, often in times of crisis, for over 60 years: we didn’t constantly show up and then leave again. This ensures a constant, stable network of relationships. Moreover, this is what allows us to react sensitively to local scenes and needs. Sometimes we’d like and are also expected to present certain cultural productions from Germany in order to enable discussions that would not have been otherwise possible. Because sometimes people can talk about things based on an outside cultural project that they couldn’t discuss directly, based on their own situations, say, in an illiberal context. Within other scenes, by contrast, such as the museum sector in Africa, we primarily focus on networking. There, we support contacts between different African museums in order to help them work out solutions together. Because the problems that museum curators in Cameroon or Senegal may have in reaching their local audience are comparable to those that their colleagues in Kenya have while the perspectives of German experts may not apply to their context.

Your presence and the network orientation of the Goethe-Institut have also contributed to your being mediators in the difficult matter of the return of cultural assets from colonial times. How do you think things should proceed in this regard?

Carola Lentz: It’s important to remember that we ourselves possess no cultural objects that we could return. This means that we can be partners and facilitators of discussions for museums and cultural institutions. We offer a platform for multilateral dialogue about ways of dealing with restitution claims, for example. And restitution is not the only option. Sometimes the societies of origin “merely” want to use these objects. In any case, our aim is to establish new connections in all directions and to facilitate discussions.

Do you have to decolonise yourself as well?

Carola Lentz: I believe we’ve come a long way in this respect. We’re more aware of the diversity among our own staff than we used to be. Our contacts with postcolonial activists in Germany also help us reflect on this and we continuously get feedback from them about our events. What the Goethe-Institut can do in this context is to promote mutual awareness and dialogue between different artistic scenes in different regions. This can perhaps also show the activists here locally or in Europe how debates are conducted differently in other places in the world. That’s an important task that we can take on.

There are a number of topics related to the work of the Goethe-Institut that are on the domestic political agenda after the Bundestag elections. The fight against right-wing extremism and anti-Semitism, for example, the topic of remembrance culture, the possible re-definition of a prudent immigration policy. You already took a clear position on this in 2015 and supported much of the welcome culture both at home and abroad. How do you want to continue to contribute to this in the future?

Johannes Ebert: We’re in a situation where at the moment, from very different perspectives, domestic and foreign policies can no longer be separated. In our own society, we’re observing increasing diversity due to various migration and refugee movements in recent decades, but also something as important as the 60th anniversary of the recruitment agreement with Turkey. At the same time, right-wing radicalism, racism and anti-Semitism are on the rise in Germany. The Goethe-Institut rejects this in the strongest possible terms. And we’re trying to do something about it.

What exactly?

Johannes Ebert: We first launched programmes to support refugees – language programmes, information programmes – in 2015. Right now, we’re in the process of setting up centres for international cultural education at five Goethe-Instituts in Germany. Together with local cultural education partners, these centres will address topics such as tolerance, respect and diversity in schools, public and cultural institutions. We’re conducting a number of projects on this abroad, in Russia, for example, on the topic of respect. We take them to schools or sometimes even to prisons. We want to make the experiences we gather abroad accessible in Germany. Because we automatically bring the perspective of our partners from abroad to Germany and we believe that this can contribute well to the success of diversity.

What is the Goethe-Institut’s position on current immigration policy?

Johannes Ebert: It always annoys me when some people criticise immigration. We should be quite open to people coming here. Immigration of skilled workers is what enables us to finance our prosperity and our social security systems. For us to be able to maintain them, studies show that 260,000 immigrants annually, more than half of them from outside Europe, would have to come to Germany by 2060. And, of course, the Goethe-Institut makes an important contribution to this. In the countries of origin, we’re entrusted with the task of preparing people for their stay in Germany through German courses and cultural sensitisation. Of course, we have to make sure that everyone involved benefits from this situation.

Do you see a central field of work here for the Goethe-Institut in Germany as well?

Johannes Ebert: When it comes to skilled labour immigration or the success of diversity, I think it would be beneficial if we were to engage even more in Germany. We would only do this together with outstanding organisations in Germany that are active in these fields. That’s simply part of the way we work; to always do something in partnership with others.

Carola Lentz: Our vision for the future includes going out into the countryside together with these centres of international cultural education; to locations beyond the big cities. Also, that we provide stimuli throughout the year with highlights such as the annual awarding of the Goethe Medal or the Kultursymposium Weimar. In my opinion, our German debates in all parts of society could certainly become even more open to voices from all over the world.

Johannes Ebert: For me, youth exchange is also an important topic. We do that together with the Stiftung Mercator in China, we do that with the Pädagogischer Austauschdienst in the USA, other organisations do it in France or Poland. But this is a huge topic for the future, also for the European future.

Ms Lentz, you’re an anthropologist. Now you observed the Goethe-Institut as a field researcher, so to speak, for a book on its anniversary. If you take the lessons of history and look to the future: What does the Goethe-Institut bring to the table in your eyes?

Carola Lentz: I think it brings a tremendous amount to the table. The Goethe-Institut is a highly flexible institution that is capable of reflection and very willing to always critically question itself and to develop new projects. Add to that the creativity of the staff, their enormous level of commitment – and we’re very, very well equipped for the future.


The conversation was conducted by KARIN FISCHER, head of the Current Culture department at Deutschlandfunk.